Norwin works for new contract
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With the five-year teacher contract set to expire Friday, members of the Norwin Education Association negotiating team plan to meet late that afternoon to decide how to proceed.
Norwin School Board President Robert Perkins, who is on the school district's negotiating team, said he heard nothing that would lead him to believe a strike is pending, the Tribune-Review reports.
What do you think about the negotiations? Log in and post a comment below to share your opinion.
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An eight-hour negotiating session that ended late Thursday night proved "very promising" in the development of a new contract for 318 teachers, according to a district official. The Tribune-Review has more details.
Just curious...
Do you approve of "Professional" athletes of being paid millions upon millions of dollars? They too have their "off seasons", and have plenty of time off for holidays. Can you afford to go to a Steelers game and and live it up while there? I don't see anyone complaining about them? We are paying for stadiums for teams which many of us will NEVER be able to afford to see play. Why, believe it or not, but yes, there are some of us who could care less whether we have these professional teams, but are still paying for them through our taxes. Don't you think that the Norwin teachers, or for that fact, any teacher, ARE PROFESSIONALS? Where are their millions of dollars? Where is their signing bonus? Their job is far more important than any professional athletes, don't you think? Take the time to look at the responsibilities of a teacher. Teachers don't just teach, and their school day does not end once the students leave or when they get home. Norwin teachers continue their education throughout the summers and throughout the school year. The AYP for Norwin has been improving since the "No Child Left Behind" and State Standards were implemented, all through the hard work and dedication of the teachers and administration. Norwin has seen it fit to invest in their administrators, buildings, technology, and athletic fields (not to mention all the benefits to the North Huntingdon community for use of the facilities). Isn't it time for Norwin to invest in their teachers? They should be paid like professionals. Here's a suggestion, why not put the squeeze on the state to put some of the billions they are getting from gambling towards the school districts for their teachers. Oh, that's right, that money was promised for tax relief. HA!
*sigh*
You are mixing apples and oranges. People are worth what the market will bear. Pro atheletes are a great example of that. Ask Alan Faneca if he is worth a $10 million dollar signing bonus. He thinks he is. The Steelers think otherwise. What is his recourse? TO FIND ANOTHER TEAM (JOB) THAT WILL PAY HIM WHAT HE THINKS HE IS WORTH. Teachers can not grasp this basic economic theory.
Teachers are in NO WAY worth "millions of dollars". There are too many state certified teachers out there that can do the same job. Again, this is basic supply and demand. Yet ANOTHER economic principal not yet understood by teachers and thier union.
You are correct that SOME teachers take extra classes (they have to achieve a Masters degree within a certain number of years). There are actually some that take work home with them. Ask any "professional" if this is part of the job and did they know that when taking the job. There are others, that put in thier 6 1/2 hours and go home. Others that take the summers off or have another job in the summers.
Teachers should be paid what the open market will bear. If that is more - it's more. If less - it's less (but the union will NEVER go for less. The union holds the wages unrealistically high. Teachers just aren't worth what they are getting if they would price themselves in the open market.
Also, "professionals" don't have unions, and DON'T go on strike. Professionals that walk out on THEIR jobs are permanentely replaced by other professionals. Again, teachers can't seem to grasp this.
Maybe they'd better go look up what "professional" actually means.
Sorry, but you're not grasping some of the ideas here. I've mentioned before that a masters degree is NOT required within a certain number of years, yet you insist on overlooking or ignoring that FACT. You also keep insisting that other teachers put in their 6-1/2 hours and go home. Are you talking about Norwin???? My daughter, a teacher at Norwin, is at school Monday through Friday from 8AM to 4PM, her CONTRACT HOURS. I believe that is 8 hours, not 6-1/2 hours. Please don't insinuate she gets 1-1/2 hours off during the day because she doesn't!!! She is at school at 7AM to do her prep time.
If teachers are not professionals, what do you call them?? Educated idiots??
So---professionals DON'T GO ON STRIKE OR HAVE UNIONS???? Hmmm....I beg to differ with you. See below the actual definition of PROFESSIONAL, as you suggested they look up. Where do YOU fit in? Do you consider yourself a professional?
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n & l
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs (a professional golfer) b : having a particular profession as a permanent career (a professional soldier) c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return (professional football)
Geez, doesn't the NFL, MLB have UNIONS?? Are they not PROFESSIONALS?? Have they not walked out before??
One last point, did you read the Trib? Sounds like the teachers and the district may be close to an agreement :) I guess their demands must not have been too absurd.
Thanks to both sides :) and thanks to all our great NORWIN TEACHERS!
Sorry, but no where in the definition do I see the word "union". Hence, applying your logic, those in a union are not professionals. MLB, NFL don't fit the definition either (neither is a learned profession, nor from the recent news do they meet the ethical standards).
I am a professional. My job requires technical learning and professional ethics. I do not go out on strike because I don't like my pay, or if someone else makes more than me. If I don't think my company pays enough, I find a company that will pay me what I feel I'm worth. Again, teachers can not seem to grasp this point.
Your daughter may be at school for 8 hours, but she does not work the entire time. Does she have study halls, recess, lunch? The rest of us professionals also show up early, stay late and do what it takes to get our jobs done. It's part of the job. I don't require my employer to pay me extra because I can't get my job done entirely during work hours. What makes a teacher different, other than the fact the teacher's union can soak the taxpayer for bonus money?
Depending on what was negotiated, a deal may get done. Unfortunately, merit raises will probably not be included in the deal. Once again, the taxpayer must pay the teachers above market rates for a mediocre performance. How about tying the raises to performance? Merit scholars increase by 10%, the teachers get "x" amount of raise. Test scores increasing equals another part of the raise. Unfortunately, the teachers and thier union would never go for this. This would actually hold them accountable for thier efforts, and we all know accountability is not in a teacher's vocabulary.
Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: pr&-'fesh-n&l, -'fe-sh&-n & l
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs ie:a professional golfer b : having a particular profession as a permanent career ie:a professional soldier c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return ie:professional football
Hmmm...I see a LEARNED PROFESSION is part of professional! Are you saying that becoming a teacher is something that doesn't need to be learned??? How ridiculous!
I also see that persons receiving financial return, ie: PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL....is also part of the definition of professional...unless of course you'd like to take this up with Merriam Webster.
And no, my daughter does NOT have any study halls, she does have a 15 minute recess where she is out WITH the kids, you know, kind of babysitting them, and yes she does get 1/2 hour for lunch.
I think it comes down to this: If you had the opportunity to do YOUR job under a contract at a guaranteed income that comes up for renewal every 5 years with a raise....would you?? I'd bet some of my hard spent tax dollars that you'd jump on it..I know I would!
And no---I do not work for a Union!
Final point - After talking to my kids, I wholeheartedly agree with them that you have no idea what it takes to become a quality teacher and what a teacher's normal day is like, and I'm thankful they both love their job and the kids! :) Cos THAT'S the bottom line...THE KIDS! :) Not the money
As soon as you say "it's not about the money", then "it's about the money".
Personally, I know what it takes because I have to train the kids parents, which are often more of a problem than teaching children.
And I WAS offered a job that, between the time the job was offered and the time I accepted, became part of the bargaining unit. On the second day, during orientation, I was informed that someone else would be determining what I was worth, what my raises would be, etc. Being that I am a PROFESSIONAL (thereby being able to think and bargain for myself), I quickly re-signed this job on the third day. I am now employed as a PROFESSIONAL with another company. Though I am NOT guaranteed a annual raise, my actions will dictate what my compensation will be. Too bad the teachers just have to show up and can (if they choose) sleepwalk through the day. There is no need for a teacher to go the extra mile. In fact, the union would have a fit (or demand more money) if the teacher did.
You see, your post and your kid's actions are in direct conflict with what the teachers union was saying. The union (which your children have choice whether to join or not) is fully prepared to strike FOR MORE MONEY. Please do not try to sugar coat it any other way.
I stand corrected....sure money is part of it - a big part of it and IT SHOUlD BE!! To say that there is no need for teachers to go the extra mile and that the union would "have a fit if they did" is, again, assanine! For someone who is so anti-union, you seem to know how this teachers union thinks, feels, and says. How is that?? Have you seen Norwin's PSSA test results or any other test results that the district does? Each year they continue to rise. How can that happen if most teachers "sleepwalk through the day"?? FYI - Norwin School District is ranked 63rd out of 500 Pennsylvania School Districts in 2007. Pretty darn good. Coincidence? I don't think so. I think that says a lot about our teachers!
I'd love to know what kind of a job entails "training the kids parents"!
And good for you, that being a PROFESSIONAL, you resigned from a job because you can think and bargain on your own! Personally, I'd rather have job security even if it IS through a union, especially in todays world. Job security is very scarce
.
I will stand by our teachers, who are QUALITY,WELL EDUCATED PROFESSIONALS!
And what is wrong with our teachers wanting to earn more money to better their lives....like YOU do? Remember...teachers are the ones responsible for intelligent people like ME AND YOU TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS RESPECTFUL DEBATE :)
Teachers have husbands/wives and CHILDREN of their own, too. And many live in the Norwin area and OWN HOMES, SO THEY ALSO PAY THE TAX INCREASES JUST LIKE ME AND YOU!
Teachers can make whatever they want. However, I should not be forced to overpay for no good reason. Quality, well educated professionals don't need a union. Can't they bargain for themselves??? Remember, these are quality, well educated professionals that can't go ask for themselves. One must wonder how these "quality, well educated individuals" get through life unless the union talks for them. How unfortunate.
Job security is a problem in our schools. Once a teacher has tenure, it is virtually impossible to remove the offending teacher. When is the last time a Norwin teacher was removed? I'd be willing to bet that if we took a poll from parents for ANY NORWIN school, there would be teachers that need to replaced. Unfortunately, there is no way to do that, much to the detriment to the students.
If the teachers are "so for the kids" tell your kids to cross the picket line if there is a strike. IF they do, I'll stand corrected. If, as I expect, they won't, we will all know it's ONLY about the money. Besides, why not have your kids seek other districts that will pay for their outrageous demands??? Why force the NHT taxpayer to overpay?
When was the last time a teacher was removed from Norwin? Actually, a few years ago. Maybe there are a few teachers that should be replaced, as well as a few IBM employees, a few Disneyworld employees, etc., etc.
Probably a few employees from YOUR company. Do you initiate that?
Sure it's about money (and other issues). Why not? They deserve to make a good living for what they do. They educate our children my goodness!! And they also have to TRY and educate the students who don't want to be in school, who have absolutely NO respect for them as teachers, and are there only because the state says they have to be! And believe it or not even NHT have parents who aren't involved with their kid's lives and could care less about their kids education. That's always fun for a teacher to deal with.
My kids love Norwin and that's why they stay. Besides, do you think the higher paying districts are sitting there with tons of openings....waiting?? So you're not going to have a mad out-pouring from Norwin anyways..or any district.
NO ONE is FORCING any NHT taxpayer to overpay...there's always the alternative!
FYI - USC, Mt.Lebo, Hampton Twp, Fox Chapel, Peters Twp, North Allegeny, and Franklin Regional (Westmoreland Co) are in the top 18 out of 500 school districts in the STATE! They are all higher tax and wealth areas, but it seems they have invested some of their hard earned money into their schools and teachers as evidenced by their state rankings, which reflects on their students! :)
OF course it's about the money. It's not about the kids or parents who's lives and learning will be disrupted should the teachers throw a temper tantrum and strike. Please don't say a teacher does thier job for the kids. IT'S NEVER ABOUT THE KIDS. IT'S ABOUT MONEY. Always is, always was.
The alternative (for the taxpayer) is to have thier home foreclosed on for not paying excessive school taxes to support overpaying the teachers. Again, explain how a newly build house in NHT is different than an assessed house in ML, or the others you name.
If I was a higher paying district and could lure away an outstanding teacher, I would recruit that teacher. But you see, outstanding teachers are available in DROVES. So why overpay for what you can get for a cheaper price? It amazes me that people like you want to pay higher taxes to overpay for a teacher. Overpaying that teacher for NO GOOD REASON, other than "someone makes more than I do". That's the poorest and most un-professional reason to demand a raise.
Also, when employees are removed at my company, it is for business purposes. If the employee fails to meet objectives, even after continued coaching sessions, the employee is released. I would be interested to know why the Norwin teacher was fired? I'm willing to bet it wasn't for being a poor teacher, even though we all know that poor teachers exist.
Ahhh...the parents lives are disrupted. Thats right, if teachers strike, there goes the babysitting services they provide for the younger ones...I forgot.
With regard to having their homes foreclosed on for not paying excessive taxes to support overpaying teachers....a little extreme, don't you think? MOST foreclosures are due to job losses, divorces, death of spouse, or, unfortunately in todays world these subprime lenders and the mess they have caused.....NOT the non-support of teacher salary increases in school taxes! (you're getting into my field now)
If you could lure an outstanding teacher away, you would. Thats interesting to me. Since you've done nothing but bash teachers, I'd love to know what an OUTSTANDING TEACHER would be....TO YOU. Just curious.
Also, you say outstanding teachers are available in DROVES....where do you get those facts...AND WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND LET THEM KNOW WHERE THEY ARE AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO BRING THEM TO NORWIN??
Where are the droves of teachers that I speak of??? Check ANY local college in May. IUP used to be known as Indiana State TEACHERS College. Obviously, teaching is still one of it's competencies. Put JUST ONE ad in the local paper for a teaching position at Norwin and WATCH how many resumes you will get for that ONE teaching position. The last I read, it is 200 qualified applicants to ONE teaching position in WPA. Teachers truely ARE a dime a dozen. If teachers want the starting salary to go up, have the colleges limit the droves of teachers that they graduate. Supply goes down, demand and price will go up.
Go ahead and not pay your school taxes. See what happens to your home. I'll be there to bid on your home at the sheriff's sale.
You had mentioned OUTSTANDING teachers were available by the DROVES!!!
THATS what I was asking about. Not just newly graduated teachers. What is your idea of an outstanding teacher and where are the droves of them????
FYI - I DO pay my school taxes...no problem! So you don't have to worry about coming to my house for the sheriff's sale. HOWEVER....I will keep alert to YOURS since it appears they are going to settle and taxes will probably go up again!!
IT will be a sorry day when taxes are increased to overpay the teachers. This is just a microcosm as why the US is consistantly falling behind in education. Teachers with guaranteed raises and tenure, coupled with no accountability (merits) have put us in this situation. But that's okay, it's only our children. But the teachers WILL probably still be overpaid. The only recourse will be to vote out the current School Board and replace them with one that has the word "No" in their vocabulary.
When my neighbors complain about taxes rising, I'll be sure to give them your handle. They will be estatic to have their taxes go up to overpay for teacher greed.
By the way, did your kid get hired right out of college? And this teacher wants to be paid like an "outstanding" teacher? Again, please pick a side and stick to it.
These people such as Becky G. (cant spell her last name nor remember it) needs to get voted out big time. They're the main reason why our taxes keep going up and up and up. I feel sorry for these older folks who have lived here for years and on a fixed income pay for the boards mistakes. No way these people or the low income ones can keep on forking out more money every time they decide to increase our taxes. The taxes have been going up every year for 7 years now. When is it going to stop?
Honestly, how much do they expect us to fork over year after year? Also, where is the accountability of where our tax dollars are going to? I'd love to know.
BRAVO! An excellent point! Thanks for sharing it here.
Norwin has the second lowest tax rate in Westmoreland County! One can not compare USC and Mt Lebo at 22 mils because there $300,000 home is assessed at $300,000 and a Norwin $300,000 home is assed at $50,000. Take that!!!!
1. Can't believe everything you read in the paper, can you? Sometimes the press isn't always right.
Are you insinuating the teachers intentionally "dumb down" our kids for the NCLB??? I think even the district would find that hard to believe.
2. Teachers DO work more than 9 months! I know that for a fact. Who do you think prepares the classroom and the new school year agenda? The magical teacher fairy?? They put a lot of time and effort in, especially in August to prepare for the new school year. Much of that time is spent at the school. They just don't show up when the kids do.
3. Again, they don't get 3 months off, nor do they have 2 weeks off at Christmas. In fact this year, winter break, as they call it, starts December 24th and they go back January 2nd, so I believe that is 8 days off---not exactly 2 weeks. Just a tad over 1 week.
4. Teachers do pay a part of their health insurance. I know I pay for part of it. I don't like it but unitl the STATE does something about it, there's no sense in discussing it.
You're right, it CAN take 7 years to become a teacher. However, the masters degree is NOT required within so many years after you are hired, and for the additional money that is paid, I understand why teachers are not in a hurry to get one!
Believe me, I DO pay enough in school taxes - in fact I pay way too much, as I'm sure most NHT residents feel!! But I'm more upset that my money goes to upping my school taxes for all these new, pretty, but unecessary buildings! Why does no one complain about that? I'd rather my school taxes go up to KEEP the quality teachers we have in our district!
On the flip side, I respectfully suggest, that any resident who is unhappy with our teachers, also has the right in this free world to move to one of those other districts that have been mentioned, where taxes are lower. Yes, maybe there are metal detectors for the children to go through, more confusion throughout the day and the buildings aren't pretty and new, but if you're worried about taxes going up and paying for teachers absurd demands.....other areas would welcome you I'm sure. Just remember - as far as your child's education - you're going to get what you pay for!
1. I am telling you that the teacher's union and the SD have dumbed down the teaching to the tests.
2. The school year runs 180 days spread out over 9 months. Wow, teachers have as many as 3 in service days before school starts to do thier bulletin boards. Preparing the new school year agenda??? Teachers get it set once and are teach the same information year after year. I might give you the history and computer teachers having to upgrade yearly, but please note: the teachers are well compensated for this upgrading of the lessons.
3. A tad over one week. But it IS vacation (in addition to the 3 months in the summer), isn't it?
4. As part of the consortium, any money (if any at all) the teachers pay for health care is set in thier contract. This is negotiated.
Why should NHT residents be forced to move because 318 teachers choose to be greedy? How about paying the teachers sensibly and paying what the market will bear? I'll also assume that, being money is no object when education is concerned, you have a degree from Harvard or Yale or CMU. You wouldn't want to hypocritical, would you?
Again, when is the last time there was a mad rush by the teachers for the door to get out of this district and go to other higher paying teaching jobs??? There isn't any. And there won't be any. Don't be fooled by this threat. Also, please remember, money is NOT the issue when one becomes a teacher. It's for the love of teaching children.
Remember that when they are strike for more money and your kids are home because the teachers choose to be greedy.
needasale is correct. Starting salary in the Norwin School District is $34,000. Who would go to school and rack up $40,000 in debt to start at $34,000? Certainly not the smart kids. This country doesn't pay its teachers enough and they wonder why we're behind all the other countries in test scores. Mail Carriers make $45,000. Why would the smart kids go to school and want to teach in your district when they can make more as a mail carrier(and they would still get the free health care and paid for unused sick days as a mail carrier). Don't pay your teachers more and watch all the talented teachers leave your district to go to those "metal detector schools".
I was waiting for this to be posted. It's always someone else's problem why my pay isn't a million dollars a year.
IF the smart kid goes to college and picks a major that will only pay $34K upon graduation, THEN WHY GO INTO THAT MAJOR???? Based on the number of teachers pumped out by area colleges, a lot of kids think this is a good major. It would have NOTHING to do with 3 months off in the summer, 2 weeks at Christmas, Easter break, 6 1/2 hour workday, full bennies at retirement (on the taxpayers dime of course). PA pays it's teachers way above what the market will bear. This is due to the union, which holds salaries unreasonably higher than market rates.
Paying teachers more than market rates will NOT make for smarter kids, only wealthier teachers.
You reference the post office as an example of gov't paying more than market rates. This is a classic economics example. Costs have continued to go up at the post office (check the increasing price of stamps). It costs too much to mail a letter, so what do people do? They mail less, do on-line banking and bill paying or use Fed-Ex, UPS, etc. What happens? The Post office loses money, due to lack of stamp revenue. What is the Post Office's response? Raise the rate on stamps. The cycle repeats itself. What the post office SHOULD be doing is REDUCING the price of stamps and cutting thier costs. More people will mail and more revenue will be generated. But this IS the gov't we are talking about. Throwing money at problems (such as teachers and the mail service) doesn't work.
By the way, what is Norwin's turnover rate in the past 5 years? How many teachers have left to go to those "metal detector" schools??
Talk amongst yourselves; we all know what the answer is already.
I also believe North Huntingdon was in the paper last month as the community who had the most new homes built. What is your district doing with all that new money? As far as I can see taxes don't need to go up to pay your teachers more. They seem to have a ton of money to rebuild ever school in the district and redo every athletic field in the district.
I'm stating that market rates are too low for teachers. That's why I didn't become one. Instead I decided to go to school for something that when I got out I started at $45,000 and in 5 years I'm now making $62,000.
I do like your idea though. We should pay teachers less.....and replace them when they complain. Because they are only teaching our future. I agree with you. Teaching is not an important job....and therefore should not be rewarded with good pay. HA!
I seem to have missed that memo that stated that a teacher did NOT earn a "good" salary. Replacing teachers when they complain are your words, not mine.
However, you are flip flopping on the issues. First, we don't pay out teachers enough, so we don't get good teachers. Then, if we don't pay the teachers the "highway robbery" rates that they are demanding, we will lose the good teachers. I give up, which side are you on???
Putting money into infrastructure (upgrading schools and facilities) is the smart way to go. However, I think that Norwin has gone overboard in some of thier building. Norwin has eliminated many elementary schools and consolidated others to save money. But, the building and taxes generated can not keep up with the current spending by the district. So your answer is just to keep piling it on the taxpayer by overpaying the teachers.
I'm not flip flopping. We should pay teachers more to start and ensure that they get good raises. That's all I'm stating. I have no problem paying more taxes to ensure my children are taught by the best teachers. The teaching career should be one of the highest regarded careers. That's how it's thought of in other countries. But not here. We're only worried about our taxes going up and how teachers are always greedy. I'm simply stating that I don't agree with that attitude. Good for the teachers that they want more to teach our children in this community that is building bigger and bigger houses and collecting more and more tax money each year.
Why do you think that people are moving and building the big houses in NHT?? Could it be because Allegheny County's taxes are too high? could it be that NHT's taxes are more sensible (for the moment)?
I'll go out on a limb and say that you are a rare person that wants to pay more taxes. But it's your money, spend it as you please. But the rest of us should not be forced, due to increasing taxes, to overpay the teachers.
Remember, a community can not tax itself into prosperity. How about LOWERING the taxes for everybody if there is so much money being generated from the building boom going on?
As for your comment "Remember, a community can not tax itself into prosperity." Mt. Lebanon, Upper St. Clair and Sewickley are 3 of the highest tax paying communities around. Amazing that they were the only 3 high schools to appear in Newsweeks Top American High Schools list.
May we assume that, because your children's education is very important, that you reside in Mount Lebo, USC and Sewickley? If not, you're being hypocritical again.
AND according to the website
http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/treasure/millsd.asp Mount Lebo, USC PALE in comparison to school taxes, even when compared to Penn Trafford (a comperable district). In fact, PT's taxes (71.25) are over THREE TIMES as much as Mount Lebos' (23.56) and USC (22.45).
So I ask, is PT 3 times better than ML or USC. Maybe Newsweek didn't travel outside of Allegheny county when they made their predictions.
Penn-Trafford is NOT comparable to USC and MT.LEBO. Check all the stats and ratings. Anyways, PT's 71.25 millage does NOT make PT 3 times better than Mt. Lebo or USC!! That is simply millage. The reason USC, Mt.Lebo,etc. schools millages are so much lower than ours is assessment!
Westmoreland Co. assessment is no where NEAR what Allegheny Co. is!! And if you take our millage times our assessment and do the same for USC, you'll find our school taxes are much, much lower. Basic math....
You totally made my arguement. Thank you. The point was, the more tax dollars spent, the better the school. This is obviously FALSE.
I believe it was in the news that Allegheny County re-assesses EVERY YEAR. So they have a better (more updated) number to assess. Besides, isn't the arguement ALSO that there is new building going on? The NEW building is EASY to assess (it is what it cost).
I'm STILL waiting to see how you explain that 22 is more than 71. (the millages)
You're not being forced. You can move. I hear Fayette County has lower taxes!!!
Why should I, a taxpayer have to move because of a bunch of greedy teachers. You're being ludicrous AND GREEDY now.
Let's have the teachers take a fair salary, based on the time put in to the job (6 1/2 hours per day and only 9 months per year). Accept a reasonable average raise of 2-3% like the rest of NHT and WPA.
Don't be greedy and hold the community and our kids hostage. It IS about the kids, isn't it??? $$$$
Wow! You are an angry person. What do you do for a living? I'm so curious after reading all of your posts. Even when you account for the days off that teachers get (about 10 wks in summer plus 1 1/2 during the year for holidays) their salaries are still less than other professionals. Most people get about 4 wks vacation. That puts teachers ahead by approx 8 weeks - 4 pays. Take a sales rep, pharmacist, accountant,...and subtract 4 pays from their yearly income. Is it anywhere near $45,000 after working for 10 years? I just don't understand where you get the idea that teachers are overpaid. The most disturbing theme that runs through your posts is that teachers don't work hard. They never have the chance to repeat lessons year to year because the standards are constantly changing and the bar continues to be raised. Teachers worry about their students...acting as counselors (and often parents) nearly as much as educators. Take a closer look at our schools today. Maybe you had a bad experience as a student but things have certainly changed for the better.
I am a Professional that, as part of my job, must provide training to adults, so I know exactly what it takes to "teach". The "students" in my class tell me I do my job quite well. I do not go on strike because someone makes more money than I do.
Would I work 10 years to make $45K?? Me, personally, no. I would find another job that paid me more. I don't force my employer to meet my salary demands. This is what the teachers fail to understand.
One must ask, IF the pay is so low, why isn't there a large turnover rate at Norwin? Any reasonable person would find another job that would pay more. If other districts pay more, then go get those jobs. IF you are the best candidate, you should get the job. Why should my taxes go up, for no good reason other than you don't feel you're being paid enough? Have the test scores increased? Have the number of merit scholars increased? Give us SOMETHING that will justify any requested raise.
The reason teachers stay at their job is simply because they love it. It's challenging and rewarding. Most would tell you that they never imagined being in any other career...almost as if it were a calling since they were young. That's why it's so difficult to hear you say that teachers are greedy. If they were greedy and wanted a giant paycheck then they wouldn't have chosen to be teachers in the first place. They chose to be teachers in spite of the downfalls...average pay, low prestige, and harassment from people like you who fail to realize that when it really comes down to it we all pay each others' paychecks whether directly (from the tax base like gov. employees, teachers,...) or indirectly (by taking a college course, buying groceries, consuting with a doctor, getting your car serviced).
IF teachers REALLY LOVE their job and pay is NOT an issue, why go (or threaten to go) on strike???
Please explain.
No one is saying pay is NOT an issue! I know I've said many times that it is an issue....you can love your job and want to be paid good for doing it. We're saying the teachers are not GREEDY....as YOU are saying!
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Please pick a side and stick to it. Do teachers teach for the love of "teaching children" or for the love of money????
Do you work for the love of your job....or to make money????
Gee....maybe since teachers love teaching children as they do....they should all do it for NOTHING!!!
Would that make all of you happy???
I work for both. I personally like my job and I was able to negotiate MY salary MYSELF. I also consult on the side and determine my OWN rates. It's too bad a "professional" teacher can't do the same.
I never said to pay them nothing. I'm saying that open market should determine their worth. And I'm thinking that thier current rate of compensation comes down when that happens due to supply and demand.
does your vocabulary extend beyond supply and demand??? geesh!!
Yeah, 318 teachers all negotiating their own rates and salary!!! LOL
The school district would come after you for sure!!! Then you'd have to move!
Supply and demand is pure economics - something the teachers and their union have no knowledge about. The union holds their compensation rates artificially higher than what they should be paid.
And, in the process, screws the taxpayer.
Thank you Maggie33 :)
I certainly haven't been able to get through! Maybe someone else can.
Sometimes fewer words mean so much! I couldn't have said it better myself.
Again....thanks! :)
No, I don't hold a degree from Yale, Harvard, etc. But I value our kids education! Our teachers are not greedy!! They are quality teachers who deserve our thanks and YOURS. You have your job because of teachers, unless you taught yourself how to read, write, do math, etc. Here at Norwin, they go above and beyond. My other child, who is student teaching, told us that he learned more about values, organizational skills, team work, leadership, education and principles from his HIGH SCHOOL days than he did after 4 YEARS OF COLLEGE!! Why is that?
As far as you moving...there's nothing ludicrous about that statement. You certainly have the right to stay or go. You seem so unhappy about our teachers, maybe a more reasonable group in another district would suit you better.
One last point, you obviously have NO idea what goes into preparing for the new school year, so I won't go there, however, it is much more than doing a bulletin board! And they DO NOT teach the same thing every year.
Norwin has wasted too much of our money in these new schools, which by the way due to such poor planning, a few of the NEW schools are nearing capacity ALREADY, (so what will their next step be?) they need to concentrate on our kids education.
After all, it IS about the kids, isn't it???
IF YOU CAN READ THIS-----THANK A TEACHER :)
So now we come to the issue - Norwin built and upgraded new schools and didn't overpay the teachers. It is the school district's responsibility to provide the teachers with what they need to get their job done. Kudos to them.
If your kid learned more at HS than at college, WHY DIDN'T YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COLLEGE??? I'm betting that you spent MUCH more money on tuition than paying taxes. If your child got a substandard education even after paying MANY DOLLARS for the education, why are you not complaining about that? Because that would shoot down your theory that more money equals better education. It doesn't. And you just proved it. Thank you.
Teachers teach to the NCLB test. How much prep does that really involve, being that the test doesn't change year after year.
I found a trend with these rebuttal people. The ones that are trying to reason with the strike and painfully explaining the outrageous demands of these public servants are the ones directly related to or are teachers themselves.
If it was about the students, Pennsylvania wouldn't be the state with the most strikes since they made striking legal. Nor would they put the students and the parents that care for them out of school just to strut around with their picket signs crying foul. Also, In 2005-2006, PA had more teacher strikes (13) than all other states in the US COMBINED.
Not to mention, these teachers are NOT state employees. They do NOT get their pay from the state as the previous person would like to believe. They do NOT deserve the same benefits as police who put their lives on the line every day to protect us from crime. Our students deserve a strike free education using our public money.
Shall I also mention that the teachers that get the highest salaries are in states that do not allow strikes!
If these unions were so pro teacher, why do they make more than DOUBLE than the average teacher? They arent in it for the good of the student NOR the teacher, they are in it for themselves. The president of the PSEA makes roughly $160k/year. That is where the teachers union dues are going. The president of the NEA makes $260/year.
I do believe the LAST person that was let go from Norwin was a teacher who had inappropriate relations with a student. Do they get let go for poor grades, poor performance? No. They get rewarded with raises and job security.
They also like to believe that every student in this district goes to Norwin. Sorry, you are wrong. There are more and more students going to private schools or even being home schooled. Can you guess why? The private school sector employees arent in it for the money as these bloodsuckers are, they are in it for the teaching. Not to mention the better education they receive.
I wish I could go to my boss stating my neighbor makes more than me and DEMAND a raise. He would laugh me right out of my office as he, and like most other people believe its an EARNED right. Not to act like a spoiled brat and lock these students out from a NEEDED and REQUIRED education.
I went to Norwin, and I tell you what, there were PLENTY of incompetent teachers on all levels. There were MAYBE a handful of teachers who were actually good enough to deserve a raise. I wish I had a job where I passed out papers, told a classroom full of students to read a chapter and fill out a worksheet on it. Meanwhile I sit there on my computer writing personal email or out in the hall talking with other teachers. I even had a teacher in middle school who would 'drink' from a paper bag during class when we were supposed to be "busy". Now thats quality education!
If they wanted the money, go be a professor! Then they can really relax and do nothing and get paid for it as per the one poster says. I do remember in college I had a chinese calculus teacher who bragged about making $120K/year and only working 4 months out of the year. Hmm..
In my line of work, I like MANY others stay after work late or come in early. Do I get paid extra for that? Do I go whine to my boss saying I cant get my work done during the day so I want more money so I can get it done? No. Not feasable. Not realistic. BUT.. to teachers its just another hissy fit crying unfair unfair unfair. I have NEVER seen a teacher at Norwin stand at the front of the room and TEACH the whole day. Not to mention they have teacher aides to HELP them.
Oh believe me I DO have complaints about college! My point was that my son got more from his average paid public school educators than his over paid professors at college. So why not work to keep our public school educators and reward them cos believe me....they put more into the kids and influence them than the college professors do!
I'd much rather pay what I do in school taxes over what I did in college tuition for 4 years....no comparison! College is nothing more than a business. You wanna talk about not caring and sleepwalking through the day and doing it for the money...then lets talk about college...cos that's where you hit the proverbial nail on the head!
You have totally made my arguement that excessive pay does not equate to good teaching. Thank you once again.
Our schools are a business. The product that teachers produce are educated kids.
HELLO.....Norwin teachers do NOT make EXCESSIVE pay!!
This is 2007!!
Like I said, moving is ALWAYS an option for disgruntled residents.
Personally, I think I'll stay so my grandchildren can benefit from our
teachers.
They DO make excessive pay. Get rid of the union and then see what the market will bear on rates of pay. I'm thinking their pay goes down in the free market (supply and demand). If you didn't have a kid teaching in the district, you'd agree with me.
How about the 318 taking an acceptable, market rate of pay. That way, the entire NHT population won't "have to move". Trust me, you're in a very tiny minority of those that support the greedy teachers and their union. All those people that you complain about that are building those $300K homes are NOT union people (unless they are union officials), nor would I guess that they are union sympathizers, especially when greed is involved.