Some parents and educators steer students away from skilled and technical careers because they value the prestige of four-year degrees more than lucrative, non-degree jobs.

That was one of the points made when Gateway News-papers held a panel discussion at its Monroeville office about whether educators and parents do enough to encourage students to explore alternatives to careers that require a four-year college degree.

Seven community members -- two parents, a student, business and trade union representatives and two college administrators -- joined in an hour-plus exchange about vocational education; public perceptions of apprenticeship, certificate and two-year programs; and education as a whole.

"We all struggle to find employees in the skilled trades," said Cindy Krisko, human resources administrator at Cleveland Brothers Equipment Co. in Murrysville, a distributor of Caterpillar equipment.

Field mechanics for heavy machinery can make as much as $100,000 a year, she said. But they get dirty.

"It's the stigma of being a greasy mechanic," Krisko said. "What parents want them to do that?"

The International Brother-hood of Electrical Workers Local 5 has a cooperative, five-year program with Communi-ty College of Allegheny County, or CCAC, that requires apprentices to also complete an associate's degree.

College and union officials approached Woodland Hills students about considering the program and were met with resistance by parents, who thought the offer was implying their children weren't good enough for a four-year college education, said Liz Strenkowski, director of admissions at CCAC Boyce Campus in Monroeville.

Ed Frieze, apprentice and safety coordinator for Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers Local 9 in Wilkins Township, said he has 12 college graduates in his bricklaying apprentice program, which provides free training. They see better job prospects in bricklaying, he said.

Right now, there are about 150 union bricklayers working on new coke batteries at U.S. Steel's Clairton Works. Frieze said the earning potential for them, not including the benefits package, is as much as $140,000 annually over the five years it will take to complete the $1 billion project.

"If I could get 100 apprentices tomorrow, I'd put them to work," he said.

But even with 300 applications sitting on his desk, finding qualified people to be apprentices isn't easy.

In a few cases, applicants scored so poorly on the required math and reading comprehension tests that Frieze refunded them the $25 test fee -- and they flunk if they have to use a calculator to do the math.

"I think it's infantile math," Frieze said. "I tell them, 'Use your head.'"

Skills required

"We've got students who can't place in our tests beyond developmental basic math and English," CCAC's Strenkowski said.

Some of those students had been admitted to four-year colleges and came home "with their tail between their legs," Strenkowski said.

She said the college failure rate has doubled and that some four-year institutions, in an attempt to "fill more beds," offer summer developmental programs in an attempt to bring students lacking college-level skills up to par before starting classes in the fall.

Students can set unrealistic career goals, said Chris Longwill of Churchill, the father of two recent Woodland Hills graduates now in college and president of Woodland Hills Academic Foundation.

The foundation offers scholarships to district seniors pursuing postsecondary education other than that offered by four-year colleges.

Strenkowski said television glamorizes professional careers, which causes students to overlook other options.

After "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" made forensic science appealing by showing female investigators with "cleavage and high-heeled shoes, now all they want to be are forensic pathologists," she said.

"And they can't get out of Algebra I."

Darlene Billeck, director of career and technical programs at CCAC Boyce Campus, said she is taking graduate courses with certified teachers who admit they avoid mathematics because they don't know math.

"Math scares people," said Madeline Havrilla of Monroeville, president of Moss Side Middle School Parent-Teacher Organization and the mother of children in Gateway School District.

"The schools aren't pushing it as well as they need to be," Longwill said.

However, vocational/technical schools have integrated math into their high school curriculum, Strenkowski said.

Billeck said the math in those schools often is more advanced than that taught in classes at regular schools, the reverse of the stereotype.

"You're not what they call a 'dumb techer' because your peers cannot score on their tests," Frieze said.

Perceptions

Havrilla said many students perceive Forbes Road Career and Technology Center in Monroeville, which serves nine local school districts, as a place for "lesser achievers."

Krisko said vo-tech students wrongly are labeled "losers" and "troublemakers."

"I hear it every day of my life," said Strenkowski, talking about the perceptions parents, students and guidance counselors have about vocational programs -- including their assumptions that those who enter training programs are "too stupid" to get into college.

Some panel members said they think high schools do not have enough guidance counselors to serve as career and academic advisers because counselors are overwhelmed with issues such as violence prevention and drug intervention.

Strenkowski said if questioned about why their children are not considering the trades or technical careers, parents respond, "They were bright," or "Why would you want to do that when you can go to Penn State?"

Longwill said as colleges have opened the door to more students, the trades have suffered.

"There is no middle ground," Longwill said. "It's the middle ground of kids who became the bricklayers and mechanics."

The allied health programs at CCAC, however, are in high demand, something Strenkowski attributes to the constant advertising done by UPMC Health System.

People generally are aware the medical field offers good money and benefits.

"You have to be comatose not to see it," she said.

Cathleen DiStefeno of Monroeville, who has a bachelor's degree in film but now is studying nursing at the Boyce Campus, said she decided to enter the community college's program because she will have more job stability and better benefits.

A few panel members said students have so many career choices, they are on overload and don't know how to begin planning a career.

Havrilla said the bottom line lies with what the student wants.

"As a parent, I want my kids to find something to satisfy them," she said.

Educational Statistics

The National Center for Public Policy and Higher Education, a nonprofit organization based in San Jose, Calif., that promotes public policies supporting education and training beyond high school, reports that for every 100 ninth-graders in Pennsylvania in 2002:

• 77 graduated on time from high school

• 47 immediately enrolled in college after graduation

• 37 returned for their sophomore year in college

• 28 are projected to graduate from college with an associate's degree within three years or a bachelor's degree within six years.

"While this doesn't look bad, it is sad to realize that 25 percent of ninth-graders do not finish high school," said Diane Baldrige, supervisor of curriculum and instruction at Forbes Road Career and Technology Center in Monroeville.

"If another 25 percent earn an associate's or bachelor's, what is happening to the 50 percent that is left?